The OFFICIAL programming thread
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Kind of a thought provoking piece @Poo. Being in data I am always focused on value because that’s mostly what I am trying to deliver. My management is just trying to deliver bits of software though, checking off some feature they committed to. My team specifically has spent the last 8 months developing their CICD/Terraform process so their development process is solid and not delivered a fucking thing. Not sure I agree with his minimalization theories without giving a thought to the future. I have seen projects get in trouble because they work, but the result is very hard to untangle and scale or whatever later when the company may hit some acceleration point and needs that scale right now. The idea ring true for a startup though that is just trying to put something out on the internet to get funding. Does that really work with complex systems?
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The stuff I built lasts for decades, but that’s mainframes and dropping out of everything but finance and banking.
https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg
Never go full Lithu-
TwainNo editing is gonna save you now-
Wingmannhttp://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG
http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg
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@Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
The stuff I built lasts for decades, but that’s mainframes and dropping out of everything but finance and banking.
His argument though is that programmers should be building for short-term customer value, not worrying about 10 years from now. Agile displaced waterfall because waterfall had long ass cycles where people were assuming what the customer wanted and there was nothing they could do if they got it wrong. When the internet came and deployment cycles were shortened, it didn’t make sense to do long ass cycles if you could just deploy and pivot if it wasn’t what they wanted. He’s taking agile in a different direction and saying the objective isn’t to deliver software every cycle, but deliver value. So the priorities are driven by things that improve the customer experience or create demand, not stuff like automation, refactoring, etc. I kinda agree, but also ignoring some of that back end stuff can bite you in the ass later.
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@Gators1 said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
Not sure I agree with his minimalization theories without giving a thought to the future. I have seen projects get in trouble because they work, but the result is very hard to untangle and scale or whatever later when the company may hit some acceleration point and needs that scale right now.
Yeah I was thinking something similar when he said this @10:15:
“If the performance problem doesn’t matter to the customer, then it is fundamentally not a problem”.
I agree with a lot of other stuff he said but the above is just irresponsible.
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At least it made me think about the concepts. I like that kind of stuff over just repeating “Agile akbar” over and over. Been trying to push the idea of customer value and we deliver information, not a data platform at my company, but my CIO’s eyes glass over when I say that. She’s purely about delivering features on a roadmap.
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The problem is that all of this stuff doesn’t boil down into 5 neat principles you can write on a whiteboard and, whatever methodology you come up with is going to be interpreted, implemented and enforced by a lot of myopic bureaucrats with no intuition for the subject.
I think a shift to focusing on customer value over working software is no doubt a good step though.
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Agree
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Gotta love open source guys. AWS gouges you for a NAT gateway…someone writes “fuck NAT” to save you money.
https://www.reddit.com/r/aws/comments/1f06hfb/do_i_really_need_nat_gateway_its/
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@Hog time to move back home!
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@Gators1 said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
@Hog time to move back home!
As a contractor, I already had that right. The client also has the right to let me go at no notice.
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@Gators1 said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
@Hog time to move back home!
I just read the linked article and saw this:
Australians worked on average 281 hours of unpaid overtime in 2023, according to a survey, opens new tab last year by the Australia Institute
That’s actually a lot if true. Works out to be about 5 hours per week. Given a huge number of them wouldn’t be doing any overtime at all, a lot of them must be doing 10+ hours a week.
Australia, generally speaking, doesn’t have the work until it kills you culture of the US and Japan either.
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Cuz you spend so much time on walkabout?
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First I thought this guy’s command of English wasn’t so good so I asked a follow up question to confirm what he meant. Then I discovered he’s actually a master troll:
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Nobody talks to our Hog that way! How do we get in this chat?!!
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@Gustaf said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
Nobody talks to our Hog that way! How do we get in this chat?!!
Yes
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I really like JavaScript so it’s kind of annoying to read people constantly shitting on the language but this is a new low:
There is a serious point, though, which I started to glimpse at PyCon: that the values and assumptions contained in programming languages inform the software that’s written with them and change the world accordingly. By the time I’d learned that Brendan Eich, author of JavaScript, is an anti-vaxxer and was a supporter of a campaign to have same-sex marriage nixed in California, I wasn’t surprised.
Brendan Eich is an asshole and therefore assholishness is built into the language?
Ignoring the above nonsense, ordinarily, I’d figure my liking JavaScript must be a reflection of some deficiency on my part given so many people seem to hate it. But then I really like Python and Rust too so I think the JavaScript haters are either noobs or just repeating shit they’ve read endlessly for internet points.
(JavaScript has its ugly bits but then so does Python, Rust and every other language I’ve learned - you make yourself aware of them and code around them.)
I learned the language of computer programming in my 50s – here’s what I discovered
A writer with no technical background recounts his incredible journey into the realm of coding and its lessons about the modern world
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I remember when XML was the new fad around the turn of the century.
It’s given me immense satisfaction to see XML gradually but steadily being replaced with JSON. Talk about an IT industry misstep.
Edit: I should qualify that I hate XML as a general data format. It’s barely readable by human or machine (try writing an XML parser). There are some use cases where it is useful.
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Here you go Hog, for when your employer says they can replace you with AI.
https://devops.com/study-finds-no-devops-productivity-gains-from-generative-ai/amp/
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@Hog said in The OFFICIAL programming thread:
I remember when XML was the new fad around the turn of the century.
It’s given me immense satisfaction to see XML gradually but steadily being replaced with JSON. Talk about an IT industry misstep.
Edit: I should qualify that I hate XML as a general data format. It’s barely readable by human or machine (try writing an XML parser). There are some use cases where it is useful.
What do you think of SGML, HTMLs daddy?
Working Software Is Not The Primary Measure of Progress
Standard Generalized Markup Language - Wikipedia
