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    • KilemallK
      Kilemall Careful, railroad agent @eWildcat
      last edited by

      @eWildcat said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

      Well… Speaking of LOT. Peggy and I installed an app on Daphné’s phone so that she can’t freely install new apps and, above all, access the internet.
      What I didn’t tell Peggy is that what I feared the most was not Daphné finding things like the black web or Japanese p0rn.

      Your former WWIIOL life?

      https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg

      Never go full Lithu-
      Twain

      No editing is gonna save you now-
      Wingmann

      http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG

      http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg

      eWildcatE 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • silkyS
        silky @oyaji
        last edited by

        @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

        @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

        @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

        @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

        I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

        Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

        Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

        Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

        This x 1000

        But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

        We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

        There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

        I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

        Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

        O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • GustafG
          Gustaf
          last edited by

          This is Punch You in Da Facebook!

          "Let's give it a week! Still a disaster? Let's give it another week…" -Tazz

          O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • O
            oyaji @silky
            last edited by

            @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

            @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

            @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

            @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

            @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

            I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

            Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

            Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

            Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

            This x 1000

            But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

            We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

            There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

            I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

            Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

            This is as close to social media as we get in my immediate family, and only I indulge, although I have cousins who have told me how much I need to be on the facebook to promote my farm. One has told me in particular that the winery cannot succeed without it.

            Personally, I count avoidance of social media as a success.

            © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

            KilemallK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
            • O
              oyaji @Gustaf
              last edited by oyaji

              @Gustaf said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

              This is Punch You in Da Facebook!

              There was an animated gif posted a dozen years ago on OOBOT of an Asian woman being punched in the side of the face through a thick phonebook. Is it still around? I cannot seem to search it up online, but posting it here would annoy hell out of blanks and lobster.

              © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • GustafG
                Gustaf
                last edited by

                Are you asking me to do a Google search for you? Because my services are not free.

                "Let's give it a week! Still a disaster? Let's give it another week…" -Tazz

                KilemallK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • KilemallK
                  Kilemall Careful, railroad agent @Gustaf
                  last edited by

                  @Gustaf said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                  Are you asking me to do a Google search for you? Because my services are not free.

                  Does Blanks have competition?

                  https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg

                  Never go full Lithu-
                  Twain

                  No editing is gonna save you now-
                  Wingmann

                  http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG

                  http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • Lob12L
                    Lob12
                    last edited by

                    Many games don’t really support that DLSS thingy yet from what I know

                    [IMG] https://image.ibb.co/nhhF0Q/new_sig_lob12.jpg [/IMG]

                    KilemallK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • KilemallK
                      Kilemall Careful, railroad agent @Lob12
                      last edited by

                      @Lob12 said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                      Many games don’t really support that DLSS thingy yet from what I know

                      When you are laying out 2000 bucks for a card, a big selling point is future proofing.

                      https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg

                      Never go full Lithu-
                      Twain

                      No editing is gonna save you now-
                      Wingmann

                      http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG

                      http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg

                      Lob12L 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • KilemallK
                        Kilemall Careful, railroad agent @oyaji
                        last edited by

                        @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                        I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

                        Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

                        Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

                        Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

                        This x 1000

                        But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

                        We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

                        There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

                        I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

                        Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

                        This is as close to social media as we get in my immediate family, and only I indulge, although I have cousins who have told me how much I need to be on the facebook to promote my farm. One has told me in particular that the winery cannot succeed without it.

                        Personally, I count avoidance of social media as a success.

                        They are probably right about the winery PR.

                        https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg

                        Never go full Lithu-
                        Twain

                        No editing is gonna save you now-
                        Wingmann

                        http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG

                        http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg

                        O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • Lob12L
                          Lob12 @Kilemall
                          last edited by

                          @Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                          @Lob12 said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                          Many games don’t really support that DLSS thingy yet from what I know

                          When you are laying out 2000 bucks for a card, a big selling point is future proofing.

                          Yeah sure. But basically with my 4070ti im still fine for a while.

                          [IMG] https://image.ibb.co/nhhF0Q/new_sig_lob12.jpg [/IMG]

                          KilemallK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • KilemallK
                            Kilemall Careful, railroad agent @Lob12
                            last edited by

                            @Lob12 said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                            @Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                            @Lob12 said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                            Many games don’t really support that DLSS thingy yet from what I know

                            When you are laying out 2000 bucks for a card, a big selling point is future proofing.

                            Yeah sure. But basically with my 4070ti im still fine for a while.

                            I went just 4070 for the new machine. Lickity split, no baking necessary.

                            https://i.imgur.com/hX2CMMZ.jpg

                            Never go full Lithu-
                            Twain

                            No editing is gonna save you now-
                            Wingmann

                            http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/72217/DSC_2528.JPG

                            http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/20416/PTOB 101_resize.jpg

                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • O
                              oyaji @Kilemall
                              last edited by

                              @Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                              I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

                              Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

                              Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

                              Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

                              This x 1000

                              But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

                              We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

                              There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

                              I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

                              Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

                              This is as close to social media as we get in my immediate family, and only I indulge, although I have cousins who have told me how much I need to be on the facebook to promote my farm. One has told me in particular that the winery cannot succeed without it.

                              Personally, I count avoidance of social media as a success.

                              They are probably right about the winery PR.

                              Well, that would depend on your definition of success, now, wouldn’t it?

                              Most years I make enough wine to satisfy me, and I call that success. I wish I had more to give away most years. I have yet to gear up for the volume that would justify getting a license to be able to sell any. I think it is too much work for too little return, and so I may just stick to what I am doing. It brings me joy, and that is enough.

                              © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

                              JamJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                              • Lob12L
                                Lob12
                                last edited by

                                Not yet

                                [IMG] https://image.ibb.co/nhhF0Q/new_sig_lob12.jpg [/IMG]

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • JamJ
                                  Jam @oyaji
                                  last edited by Jam

                                  @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                  I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

                                  Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

                                  Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

                                  Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

                                  This x 1000

                                  But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

                                  We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

                                  There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

                                  I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

                                  Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

                                  This is as close to social media as we get in my immediate family, and only I indulge, although I have cousins who have told me how much I need to be on the facebook to promote my farm. One has told me in particular that the winery cannot succeed without it.

                                  Personally, I count avoidance of social media as a success.

                                  They are probably right about the winery PR.

                                  Well, that would depend on your definition of success, now, wouldn’t it?

                                  Most years I make enough wine to satisfy me, and I call that success. I wish I had more to give away most years. I have yet to gear up for the volume that would justify getting a license to be able to sell any. I think it is too much work for too little return, and so I may just stick to what I am doing. It brings me joy, and that is enough.

                                  About 10 or twelve years ago, Maureen bought me a wine-making kit for Christmas.

                                  Cabernet Sauvignon - or any red wine should age at least 3 to 5 years before you drink it . . . and it will rarely taste as good as it can taste if aged only in a glass bottle.

                                  So I drank some right away and it tasted like mediocre box wine just as I expected. It was drinkable, and it did produce a buzz, but that’s about it

                                  A few months ago I found one of those bottles - recognized right away by the stopper I used - a bright yellow Zork stopper - company out of business years ago.

                                  I opened the bottle and let it aerate a bit and it tasted as good as any $30 bottle of wine.

                                  Damn, I only found the one bottle!

                                  But just last week while rummaging around in the hard-bottom crawl space we call “The Hatch,” I discovered one more bottle from the same batch.

                                  I am looking forward to opening that one soon!

                                  "laissez les bons temps rouler!"

                                  O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                  • O
                                    oyaji @Jam
                                    last edited by oyaji

                                    @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @Kilemall said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @oyaji said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @silky said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @madrebel said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                    I don’t think social media kills as often as other “vices”

                                    Read Jonathan Haidt’s books on the subject. You’d be surprised how bad social media is. The effect its having on our youth is significantly worse than alcohol or drugs ever were. Here is a brief article https://www.persuasion.community/p/haidt-the-teen-mental-illness-epidemic

                                    Social media makes people think they’re trans, that the world is flat, etc.

                                    Now, you could fix this in other ways but acting like it isn’t all that bad isn’t one of them. Banning it probably is the wrong route too. Trump’s plan to end section 230 and force social media companies to allow you to opt out of their algorithms if accomplished are good first steps. However, the human brain is wired to deal with drama on the scale of the entire planet. The human brain is still wired for tribal life still not planet sized bullshit 24/7.

                                    This x 1000

                                    But fixing it seems impossible. We’re the car that’s edged itself into a car parking cul-de-sac that it now can’t reverse itself out of. I can refuse my kids having true SM until they’re 16, maybe. But after that? It’s there, waiting to pounce, and they’ll voluntarily grab it for its attractions and benefits.

                                    We are fucked. We screwed it all up.

                                    There are people who do not participate, but they are few by now, I guess.

                                    I am not immune. I participate in this forum. That must count as social media, right?

                                    Personally. I don’t count Forums as social media though they probably meet whatever technical definitions might govern that

                                    This is as close to social media as we get in my immediate family, and only I indulge, although I have cousins who have told me how much I need to be on the facebook to promote my farm. One has told me in particular that the winery cannot succeed without it.

                                    Personally, I count avoidance of social media as a success.

                                    They are probably right about the winery PR.

                                    Well, that would depend on your definition of success, now, wouldn’t it?

                                    Most years I make enough wine to satisfy me, and I call that success. I wish I had more to give away most years. I have yet to gear up for the volume that would justify getting a license to be able to sell any. I think it is too much work for too little return, and so I may just stick to what I am doing. It brings me joy, and that is enough.

                                    About 10 or twelve years ago, Maureen bought me a wine-making kit for Christmas.

                                    Cabernet Sauvignon - or any red wine should age at least 3 to 5 years before you drink it . . . and it will rarely taste as good as it can taste if aged only in a glass bottle.

                                    So I drank some right away and it tasted like mediocre box wine just as I expected. It was drinkable, and it did produce a buzz, but that’s about it

                                    A few months ago I found one of those bottles - recognized right away by the stopper I used - a bright yellow Zork stopper - company out of business years ago.

                                    I opened the bottle and let it aerate a bit and it tasted as good as any $30 bottle of wine.

                                    Damn, I only found the one bottle!

                                    But just last week while rummaging around in the hard-bottom crawl space we call “The Hatch,” I discovered one more bottle from the same batch.

                                    I am looking forward to opening that one soon!

                                    I have only produced white wine so far, which ain’t good much beyond a year. I have never had a single bottle remaining beyond a year - I and guests have always managed to drink it all before then. It thus far has been best around the 3 to 6 months mark. I do not oak my wine (at least not yet).

                                    I have wanted to increase production, but I need more vines or I need to start buying juice or grapes. I like the simple and hardy indiginous grapes for white wine because they are hardy and easy to grow.

                                    So far I only have stuck to the Niagra cultivar, but for red I am probably going to plant Chambourcin vines… if I live long enough.

                                    A vinyard is a lot of work. An acre will have up to 700 vines, which require for part of the year an average of 20 hours per week of work, and in peak season 40 hours per acre (with “all hands on deck” needed at harvest time), for a total of around 300 hours per acre per year.

                                    If I can get 2 tons per acre yield, I should get 100 bottles of wine from them. Yields can range as high as 8 tons peracre depending on cultivation, availability of water and variety of grape.

                                    © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                    • JamJ
                                      Jam
                                      last edited by Jam

                                      So many grape varieties; so little time to learn about them all.

                                      A quick read tells me that they do well in NY, NJ and Pa and can result in a pretty good red wine.

                                      "laissez les bons temps rouler!"

                                      O 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • O
                                        oyaji @Jam
                                        last edited by

                                        @Jam said in The OFFICIAL tech stuff thread:

                                        So many grape varieties; so little time to learn about them all.

                                        A quick read tells me that they do well in NY, NJ and Pa and can result in a pretty good red wine.

                                        I guess you mean Chambourcin?

                                        It is a hybrid of a French vitis venifera crossed with an indigenous North American cultivar ( I forget which) and is considered particularly hardy here. That is good for me because I know there will be years when I cannot afford to lavish vines with optimal care.

                                        © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

                                        JamJ 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • JamJ
                                          Jam @oyaji
                                          last edited by Jam

                                          @oyaji

                                          Yep, I was referring to your aim of growing Chambourcin. I followed up with a quick check from the Wiki.

                                          As in most other things for me in this life, I tend to dig deep into a small number of things and touch lightly concerning the rest as I go about living.

                                          This place has sent me down many a rabbit hole . . . and without regret.

                                          I’ve always enjoyed Italian wines and I have my favorites.

                                          Anything with Sangiovese is generally good and often outstanding. People know about Chianti and some also about Brunello di Montalcino, but I bet few are aware of Montepulcano vin Nobile and the huge variation in Super Tuscans.

                                          I arranged to have a case of Brunello shipped home from Montalcino (Patrizia Cencioni) in 2023 and also some wines from La Ciarliana with whom we also visited.

                                          Home - Cantina Patrizia Cencioni

                                          Home - Cantina Patrizia Cencioni

                                          Cantina Patrizia Cencioni Good Montalcino wine is born in the vineyard and grows in the cellar, from the passion of three unique women OUR STORY farm PATRIZIA CENCIONI Tradition, creativity…

                                          https://www.laciarliana.it/

                                          Only after I returned home did I learn that Montepulciano d’Abruzzo which I knew came from the Abruzzo region was a completely different wine from the wine that comes from Montelpulciano.

                                          Montepulciano d’Abruzzo is made from Montelpuciano grapes that are not grown in Tuscany nor near Montepulciano and Montepulciano vin Nobile is made from Sangiovese grapes that are grown throughout Tuscany and are used in Chianti and Brunello, among others.

                                          Confused yet?

                                          Don’t ask me about wines of the Venito or of the Piedmont where the wines are often made from the wonderful nebbiolo grapes used in Barolo, Barbaresco and Gattinara.

                                          Books have been written about the rise of the Super Tuscan.

                                          In short . . .

                                          There are some grapes that grow in many places and some grapes that only grow well in a few places.

                                          Some grapes produce consistently good wine sometimes even in a year of challenging weather and other grapes vary so much year to year due to being less hardy that the wine can be inconsistent.

                                          Cabernet grapes, which are considered to have originated in France, grow well in many places including Tuscany, but also in California, New York, Australia and many places.

                                          Sangiovese can be a bit finicky year to year so some in Tuscany have made superior wines by blending Sangiovese with Tuscan grown Cabernet, Cabernet Franc and Merlot, as examples only. Some of these can cost $500 a bottle. I’ll never taste any of those, but there are some really good and reasonably prices Super Tuscans as well. ;-)

                                          "laissez les bons temps rouler!"

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • O
                                            oyaji
                                            last edited by

                                            I think I would be interested in a Tuscany-US NE indigenous grape cross cultivar if something is available, hardy, and I like the wine it makes…

                                            © 2015 - 2025 oyaji

                                            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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